Make Needs fulfilling worth it!

Statement: Fulfilling needs of residential is a wasted effort later in the game

Facts: While early in the game one needs PP to survive production and EP to survive emergency system. later on when you have millions of EP and PP and nothing to spend them on hiring workers or students becomes useless (except events) but the revenue gained from them is completely useless since you cannot trade or sell EP/PP one just accumulates it infinitely.

With this in mind ive only left a handful of workers and students in key buildings for events without need fulfilled and turned my whole city into a capitalist city. since capitalists produce double CC, once from rent and once from revenue i saw this as a double win for me so i worked hard and managed to fulfill most of not every need of each building i had.

Was a fun challenge which i gladly accepted and partially succeeded but when it was all set and done i noticed that i had to buy products to keep up with city demand and i was baffled to notice that i was actually loosing money instead of earning...

So i started to calculate ( also there was some post on forum about which house gave how much revenue per product) and compared with the sell price and i was again baffled to see that hardly any products are worth supplying, the majority of farm/brewery/bakery products produce better CC from selling on market rather then supply.

so why we bother supplying:
- for the small xp amounts?
- because that's the way game supposed to work?
- because i like to feed my citizens?

All these semi-valid points have little influence on me if the end result is loosing CC. it is simply not worth supplying the commercials

Suggestions:
- lower supply requirements to x4 or even x2 for some products
- increase buildings revenue by a factor
- increase production (this has been discussed and there are several good suggestions, along with manufacturing improvements)
- control market prices (this one i dont like but ive put it out there because its one way to look at things) we all know barley and hops are controlled, maxim price is 30

 

I completely agree. There is no 'financial" logic in fulfilling needs. I find myself occasionally tempted to place the many breadbaskets in the inventory around the city, and struggle to supply them until the voice of reason (this time, in your post) calls me back to my senses. There is no point, in the current structure of the game, to supply needs.

 

Yeah, most of my citizens are living on a liquid diet of smoothies and hefeweisen. That is going to affect their health eventually… And that only barely manages to be worth it because I make the goods myself. No single good in the bakery is worth the CC price from any building. I stopped giving rolls long ago, and really haven't given the other bakery products. Higher beers aren't worth it, and now even potatoes aren't worth it.

If you have to buy even one ingredient to make something, you take a loss in many cases. Even with improvements and mastery it's still usually not worth it. I'm in favor of reducing goods needed and increasing production somehow. Needing 12 of anything is ridiculous and 8 is often pushing it. One extra farm at max-level isn't going to change much for those that stick around long enough to get it.

Fishery/ranch/dairy goods still work because there is such a huge surplus, but unless you are hurting for energy you can make those yourself too. I don't know why people buy most commercial goods at the prices they go for, but thank you. If you can't keep PP/EP up without relying on over-priced goods, you're doing it wrong. People should boycott these prices.

I would rather fulfill all needs as it is more interesting, but most of my commercials now sit empty.

 

In my city, usually I'm supplying Pilsner, Hefeweizen and Raspberries. I still produce other goods, but only one of them i'm selling from time to time, when the price is high.

Well, in this case, stop buying that product. Take a break from giving some things to your citizens and wait till you can do it without buying them!
The only thing I buy from time to time are buildings materials.

 

I like it the way it is. It works absolutely perfect for me. No reason to complain at all. Why should anybody boycot anything?!? The game is great. There's a lot of people who like to sell, and a lot of people who like to buy, and yet another bunch of people who like just to go by what they can produce themselves without selling or buying. Can't you see how perfectly balanced the game is in this respect?!? C'mon with your never ending complaints about what actually works perfect. Or are you just trying to tease sleeping gigant Seph? Hush! He's sleeping!

 

No, Norton. We -- for some obscure reason -- would like to imagine there is a logic behind the structure of the game, which is city building. If the game offers as one of its major design challenges the optimal supply of needs (using limited number of commercial building with limited range) than success in this task deserves a reward.

 

I read this post with interest, and had a close look at how my city was set up.
My citizens bitterly regret this, as I have now taken away all their hollywood diners and bread baskets.
As ALWAYS happens with a central command and control economy (i.e. communist), the means of production do not match the market requirements, and consequently the market fails. A once fair mayor (myself) has succumbed to the temptations of a broken market and I am now filling my coffers with CC instead of feeding my population.
Did RisingCity INTEND to build a game to demonstrate exactly how and why communism fails?

Putting a fixed upper limit on food production permits is a catastrophic fail.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again:
It should be MY decision how many farms or bakeries I build. It should be my choice to use the land and spend the CC and materials needed. The combined wisdom of all mayors working independently would then create a perfectly functioning market.

 

I did a big check on all my revenues a few weeks ago and came to the same conclusion(s). Depending on improvements things can still differ a great deal when comparing single buildings (e.g. I have houses that give me around 50 CC for 1 raspberry and I have houses that give me 160 CC).

As a result, I changed my city layout around a bit and/or disconnected buildings from certain supply chains. At the some time I changed my market habbits: I used to be a buyer for the most part, now I am selling some goods quite regularly.

However, I don't think anything needs to change within the game. As a single player, I have the choice to take a closer look at these things and change my game strategy accordingly (if I want to).

 

Smart approach. Thumbs up. That's the way to go. The system is good, just learn to work with it.

 

so when did this topic change into a topic about market?
im a happy seller too, for most part, and i get great profits out of it, which makes me happy but thats not the topic here,

how is removing commercials and selling products improving needs revenue from housing, or keeping the needs revenue from being a useless value?
you've completely missed my point lol...

 

@wizardelo,

it wasn't my intention to turn your original point, I'm sorry if it came across that way

In your opening post, you described how PP/EP become are over-accumulated/become less important once a certain point in the game is reached. And then the player usually switches to more (or mostly) capitalist inhabitants.

I think at this point (or later, depending on where you are in terms of building/upgrading), CC become the main deal, as upgrades become more and more costly and a player probably also buys more materials.

Of course, revenue is an additional way of earning more CC. At the moment, however, the market provides even higher earnings for some/most of the products. So, if CC earnings are the main point (and I think it is, not just for above reasons, but also because there is simply no other 'reward' for supplying houses with shops, e.g. if shops also had an influence on houses' mood loss or something like that), it's simply a fact that the game provides two (in this case) 'lanes' to earn additional CC and the player can chose which one to use (or to combine them in whichever way they like).

So in this regard, I don't think there is anthing that needs to be improved or fixed.

On the other hand, I do find it a bit 'sad' that commercial buildings are becoming a bit uninteresting. Which is why I'd personally like to see additional factors added that could make them more interesting again (wildly inventing here: e.g. the additional mood gain mentioned above, or an extra something if you provide a house with ALL its required shops etc).

Again, sorry if this doesn't actually support your original idea, but I like brainstorming the general subject and couldn't help tossing in my 2 cents.

 

It has actually been about market in part right from the beginning.

Your "complaint" (suggestion) for a big part hangs on comparison of sell price on the market and relevant reward from need fullfilment. Without this comparison you would probably have no point at all. So I guess it's not about missing the point, but rather about different ways of dealing with the issue, different game strategies, different expectation.

And then market is decisive factor. If enough people decide to sell and not buy, prices will naturally go down, and the whole scenario changes again. Standard free market situation. When it is profitable to sell, you sell. When it is profitable to supply, you supply. Now is this a challenge too big for you? While you require what seems to be a fixed solution, this scenario challenges you to be flexible and adjust your strategies to the market situation.

 

Cud it be that the RC is growing kinda fast and city becomes really big and the demands of the goods is so big that the low amount of produceing pits just is to low. Ex 5 lumbermills migth work just fine to lv25-30. After that u sure wud benefit from a 6:e and a 7:th. Or increase amount on making in the 1:s u have.

Bigger production is making market prices fall and it wud be more benefit to furfill the needs of the city.

In my small town i struggle to make all i need to fill the needs of the city, i just cant make it. so i need to buy or dont fill the needs. Atm i just do a combo off it all.

//Zreck

sorry for spelling and gramma

 

Something else that hasn't been considered here is the technological advancements that occur in every economy, thereby increasing supply and decreasing demand. After having a maximum of output for a certain amount of time, we should be able to upgrade to keep up with technology. Eh? RC aims at being realistic, right? How much more real can the economics be? Wiz, you should have already noticed the price increases in the market place within the last 2-3 months. I know that most of them just doubled! I just found that out the hard way by spending all of my CC trying to supply all of my citizens.

 

Realistic? ? ? This is one thing that I for sure would not suspect them of. They have hard time just to keep the game going and scramble around to gether at least faint outline of vision for development. "Realistic" is not in their vocabulary.

 

Material prices are always manageable, it's the the prices of products that are crazy. Selling instead of supplying isn't a problem, per se. The problem is that the prices render a large part of the game essentially useless, especially if you don't get your PP/EP from needs (which I mostly don't now and haven't for a long time).

Who you have in your buildings essentially doesn't matter for anything but events. You can just stick a bunch of bars or satellite dishes or other rent-increasing improvements on buildings and ignore needs entirely and you'll be making way more CC/PP/EP than you would with needs since needs-increasing improvements don't have as high of a modifier and the goods fetch more on the market.

I must be one of the only ones that thought negative values on improvements was balancing, even if they may have needed tweaking. Now you may as well choose the same strategy for all buildings.

Which is why I said people should boycott the prices. Prices have been steadily going up since multiple events were introduced, and they soared after x-presso was removed. The amount of offers has dropped considerably, to the point where the only ones there for some goods seem to be created by the game to ensure a minimum supply. Barley is pretty much always in this state now, and for some strange reason even tuna has been recently. Two extra bakeries for many of us hasn't made the price of rolls drop at all. In fact, it's gone up.

You can just trade to get what you need — which is a valid strategy — but it is becoming the only sensible strategy. I've never seen an online-game economy in such a state. It's broken. Badly. It might be perfect for you, but for people that want to fulfill all needs and be rewarded for it, it's far from it.

The thing is, is that people keep buying things. If you want prices to fall, stop buying things, especially at price you don't like. Simple supply and demand. It'll probably never work though, since many people probably:

• Feel obliged to fulfill all needs, even if it results in a net-loss. I'm sure many don't even do the math.
• Feel obliged to complete events.
• Can't keep up PP/EP and think they are worth the exchange rate.
• Are greedy.
• Have more money than they know what to do with.
• Don't realize this.

There are also time and convenience to factor, as well as familiarity. New players may assume prices are normal or reasonable and just roll with it without giving it much thought.

Some don't like the price floor and ceiling, but there are problems without it too. The biggest would probably be buying things super-low and reselling them substantially higher, which is somewhat mitigated with the current system since practically nobody sells near the floor or buys near the ceiling intentionally, and those that do get cheap goods often use them themselves, I assume.

The current system keeps it somewhat fair by keeping prices from drifting too far, too fast. Imagine the spikes there would be during events without it. The downside though is that if you did want to make low offers that can actually fulfill needs with a profit, you aren't always able to, and new players are increasingly screwed unless they focus entirely on manufacturing, and even then it'll only last you so long.

A huge increase in manufacturing capacity and/or static price caps are the only way to fix it for sure. Though I'll miss selling rolls for what I can get for them, I could probably afford to make/sell more goods, and supplying them would be worth it, so income might not change much. Plus materials will be unchanged.

Tl;dr: Fulfilling needs is largely worthless and illogical.

 

I think Arsuru about summed it up. I spent about a year building a city where most needs of most building were supplied. I was wondering if more people, like me, are about to re-arrange their cities, and ignore the constraints of commercial building range?

 

I have rearranged my cities multiple times firs to be asthestically pleasing then to layer on needs. If they get their needs supplied great, but mostly it is visually appealing to me. My Energy and mood stay almost 100%. I also, have started selling more products. That has really helped me expand my spaces more. Am pretty slow about upgrading my bigger buildings though simply because of the great amount of raw materials they require and the cost if I buy them.

 

I still want to build my city to have all needs meetable in a visually pleasing way, I just expect the commercial buildings to be empty for the most part. It's a design challenge to add some purpose, and I think that if the game is to remain viable they will have to address these issues eventually — and quite possibly are — albeit in silence. Any kind of major reorganizing is still a ways off though since most of those commercial buildings are useless to build/upgrade to me right now.

 

I say as I have done before when this type of discussion come up.
After level 35 (for most before) the only thing you can build is super expensive "decorations".