Increased Production

since i dont know everybody's strategy i will not speak for all high lvls, but on my behalf, i spend daily large amounts of money on the market, making happy alot of sellers. i dont see that as profit, if anything im loosing city credits.

 

I like the diversity, where with some product portfolio there can be general overproduction, with others there is a shortage. That makes space for different strategies and varying playing styles. Overproduction everywhere will substantially change the game and can potentially make the market completely useless, taking one of the tools out of the game.

As to farms, when everything is so cheep priced, what reason would we have to increase production? Obviously there already is a major overproduction of farm comodities in the game.

 

And that's what makes the market work. What would be market for without people buing? Needless to say that it's solely your decision to have chosen this gaming strategy. That's what the game allowes. Some buy, some sell. Increase the production power substantially and you have destroyed all that or major part of that.

And the debate goes on.

Edit: I do realise though, that basic production "needs" of ERS Mayors are a bit higher the that of non ERS. Possible solution: Make the reward packs really worth it as already suggested, to make up for the difference.

 

My only intention was to suggest some numbers. Ultimately it's down to the devs to decide what to do.

 

i love a good debate, i always learn new things
so in your opinion if everybody is self-sufficient, there is no more market request and sells will pile up?
consider this, not everybody will want to build/upgrade their factories, for long time i did not want to max them out either, cause of the power/mood drain. also increasing production will increase pp usage, again another drawback.
there are plenty of reasons this change will not convince all buyers to stop purchase, will just give some of us the option to make less "donations" as i call them.

 

Equally not everyone will want to build their manufacturing buildings.
Instead of building a fishery, for example, they may chose to purchase it all on the market.
I do feel that purchasing stuff on the market is too easy. We should have a trainline or something to make it a bit more interesting. Everyone loves trains, right?

 

Imo major increase in production power will substantially change the game and may upset the game ballance. Not saying it will not be playable any longer. It will sure reduce the importance of market. With everything on overproduction the prices fall. There might actually be many who want to buy due to price crunch, but not as many who would want to sell for the same reason. Which would in itself work again as balancing factor raising the prices again. It's a bit hard to predict how it would actually work, but the price crunch is probable, resulting in "dead" market.

From experiencial point of view we already had a low market situation with supply being much higher then the demand, and again, lot of people complained about that saying it's not worth producing anything for the market with such low prices. Obviously it was not very good for the game either. BP then intervened by setting bottom limit for lumber mill items to increase prices a bit, but it was just a temporary solution. After Commercial upgrades were introduced the market came alive again. Increased demand ment a real solution for the market. Now it's working fine, much better then at that time. Since any insensitive increase in production power (or decrease in demand) has a potential to upset it again, I would leave as it is, and treat any production increase ideas in a very cautious way.

As a disclamer I would state that I didn't make any serious predictive modeling of possible results as I don't have time for it. Might be a space for dkarl to step in. I'm just being cautious, that's all.

 

I feel the same. I've purchased barley when I was running low because I'd just unlocked pilsner. In the main I like to be self sufficient hence the need for my 7th & 8th farm.

I would like to see the ability to go to mayors that we've 'friended' & negotiate with them direct if they have stock to sell. Rather than just rely on the market where certain items are over inflated

 

the point of view is in the eye of the beholder, as a seller: ofc the market is going great, your making profit of your over-production stocks. while me as a buyer, im forced to visit market on a daily basis just to keep city running properly.
while i agree market needs to stay alive to help the buyers, same market prices are killing my rent profit due to purchases which isnt fair.
the balance not the same for everyone. getting prices lower would mean people would buy more for the price would seem more fair, i dont know if you have noticed but most of the important goods are aiming for 500CC ea.
some can afford that, but alot of people are turned off by this price. demand is going up with commercial upgrades and mastery system, supply isn't (cause of the production capabilities)

 

I change strategy all the time based on the game conditions and my City development. The balance actually is the same for everyone, as we play the same game. It's about strategy we choose. By that we co-create the game as we interact with it and in between ourselves through the market. Nobody is really forced to sell or to buy.

It's good that the supply is not going up, as we needed increased demand to make get the market out of the pit and make it alive again (see the example above). Increasing production would negate that.

 

My final thoughts on this. Hoping that the market regains some sanity soon otherwise it'll drive people away from the game

 

Prices used to be a lot higher then now, as those Mayors of old testified. (would find the posts on old forum for you if I had time) It didn't drive anybody away then, it will not now. That's the benefit of learning from history. Actually those who remembered these prices were pleased with the game at that time. Their complaint, on the other hand, was "such low prices".

Well, the history also teaches us, that whatever the state of the market, there will always be some happy, some less happy. I guess this debate will never have it's end. It's like the market itself. Constant tangling of supply x demand. And I'm not forgetting that the debate originated with production increase demand.

 

Time for my tuppence worth again then. I remember when bricks were at 700 each, but it didn't last for long - I didn't buy bricks then either. I also remember when beams were at 60 or 120, but now they're at 180. I'm happy to buy bricks at 350 and preferably less than that - I've bought more than 2000 at around 300 a few weeks ago. Above that, I might as well just wait for me to build my own.

I'd prefer to be self-sufficient, on the whole, but will often top up stocks from the market when it suits, so have bought wheat and hops lately because I've not been keeping up with my farms. But the main reason for wanting to be self-sufficient if I can is so that I can cope when prices go stupid in the market. If I didn't have a brickyard, and had to buy all my bricks, having the price of bricks nearly double in the space of 10 days would not help my city AT ALL.

To answer Mr Mungo, I use (and these calcs have only just been done, so I haven't verified them yet!) about 2500 potatoes, 2300 raspberries (not including donuts!), 1300 donuts every 24 hrs. On top of that, about 1000 hefeweizen, 480 brown ale and 740 pilsner.

At the moment I'm keeping up with beer supplies, but that's only by using xpresso on the brown ale and pilsner. A L3 brewery takes 17 hours to make 320 pilsner. So if I run all 3 of my breweries on Pilsner, that's 720 in 17 hours. That leaves 7 hours of brewery time for other beer, which take either 11.5 hours or 14 hours to brew. I cannot see how you keep so much stock and say your breweries can keep up.

 

I think we just must have different buildings. I am guessing yours are more high level buildings, whereas mine are mid-to-high. I have been spending most of my resources on improving my city hall lately, as have more than sufficient PP/EP.
I have 1 gym, 1 stadium, plus maxed out on beer gardens.
A 2nd stadium is coming up soon.
I run 2 Level-3 breweries, and they are constantly producing

Bakeries and brickyards are where my struggles are. Everything else is reasonably okay.

Just got to Level 40, by the way. So at same sort of level. You are just higher up with more population. Just shows a couple of different ways to play the game, and its consequences.

 

It's all in what you want for your town. I'm at level 29 with a population of less than 1200. Yet, I managed to finish the darn biker event and get the building. Sure it cost expresso, but I've been saving it just for this event. I've got tons of land that I haven't built on yet simply because my goal is to buy all the land.

So, if you folks are going for the top 10 in the top 100, and have to put big buildings in the town to get the number of residents up, you'll have huge resource needs to accomplish this. I have all three breweries, but they're at level 1. I only built them for the biker event; before that I simply bought my beer because I couldn't take the hit on power and mood.

I like the high prices in the market. That means my farms and lumber mills can run at full capacity and the total output is sent to the market. This gives me the CC I need to buy the land. When I get all the land, then I'll start thinking about raising the population, but I'll go at it slowly making sure I can supply power and keep the mood up. I don't have to feed the capitalist, money comes from the market. I don't have to feed the students, I tucked the firehouse away in storage. I only need to feed the workers to keep the manufacturing going. Those silly capitalists can't give me anywhere near the funds I need to buy the land.

So, why one would NEED to have even greater production goes right over my head. Sure events take a lot of production (freaking tofu dogs), but the market can supply all the money one needs if you're willing to slow down a bit in raising the population.

Besides, the developers are messing with the market all the time. Right now there is an offer of 120,000 beams at 294 setting there. No player would do that. There's a commission of 380,000 on that offer and we all know that no one will buy that many beams at the highest price. It's simply there to push the average price up. I'm sure there are a few players that can afford the 38 million price tag, but there probably aren't any silly enough to pay it.

 

two cents:

1. Why upgrade commercial features:

As mentioned this game is about strategy and how one uses the components of the game during game play. Considering that, it must be accounted for that the game has been recently evolving incrementally. To fulfill a truly balanced evolution – the game should develop full circle in the advancement of ALL building upgrades regardless of residential, commercial or fulfillment. (edit addition: including the ability to upgrade power components in a future evolution process.)

Since residential and fulfillment have to date already been granted the ability to expand coverage and attribution – it only seems logical and in the best interest of game play to add expansion to commercial buildings as well. Long term business plans look at the balance of a company as a whole. Constantly looking for positive changes in production and considering capital influence on peripheral dependencies. Small term vision is what drives business down as it attempts to address individual issues with no attention to secondary consequences. It’s not just about the lower levels not needing more commercial product or about feeding the market. It’s about balancing the game out to meet the changed requirements of the upgraded residential and fulfillment components.

2. Driving away players:

We have seen elements of this game that have the potential to drive players away. Speaking as someone who has actually stopped prolonged play at one time, my opinion is the market will never be a deciding factor for the majority of players as to whether they play or do not play. The market is a choice that fluctuates wildly or mildly depending on demand. I have spent literally millions of CC on flowers, rolls, building materials, etc. while making thousands selling as well.

It’s the effects of actual game play like the emergency system and a conduit for constructive communication that impacts the bottom line of player game time.

 

I picked up this sentence just to make the point, as I don't want to delve into too long debate.
In my view the game actually is extremely well balanced the way it is thanks to the Mastery system and Commercials upgrade. It now provides the option to build the city spacious, yet economically efficient. It also now allows a much wider variety of arrangements. Where in the past you were forced either to cramp everything together in basically pre-defined arrangements, or set up for rather slowish development.
This "choose from variety" or "give freedom of choice" approach somewhat contrasts the idea that "everything has to be utilised to the max", which seems to be underlying some other views. Seems a bit like a tension between an artist and an economist to me.

 

This makes no sense to me. Example of just one corner of my city.

I have one Flowerista that is fully developed to cover a 16 x 17 range and hold a maximum capacity of 320 floral bouquets. Within it's range I have 4 bio towers that refresh every 6 hours. I have 16 skydomes that refresh every 4 hours and I have 13 nexus apts that refresh every 2 hours.

To clear the 4 and 2 hour houses every 4 hours requires 132 bouquets. BUT - every four hours - I can only produce 128 bouquets with 2 botanic gardens. Just how is that economically efficient?

The commercial output of the botanic gardens needs to be upgraded to meet the fulfillment needs of my residential buildings and the holding capacity of my flowerista. Period.

Edit addition: Of course I would like to collect the 2 hour houses every 2 house and be able to not ration out bouquets when I want to clear all housing at once. It gets old to have to purchase bouquets now that I was able to upgrade the flowerista and housing.

 

Then you probably qualify for economist approach, not that artists one. Not every mortal can understand the mind of an artist.

PS: Using special and rare mystery building as an example of a common city operation in this debate further emphasises your above statement.

 

Your perspective eludes me. If they give mystery buildings as event rewards and offer them in a regular cycle - then they are a common city operation. To say my 33 houses are not a common part of my everyday game play is ridiculous.

And...if you cannot see the example of production to fulfillment need that my scenario proves - you clearly do not understand the debate. It's not about which residential, commercial and manufacturing buildings you use as an example - it's the point of differential between output and requirement.

Edit addition: Reminder - the thread is about "increased production", not the "artistic value of production".

This is my final statement. Have the last word and let us agree to disagree.